Valve Defends Left 4 Dead 2 Release Among 20,000 Member Boycott
June 9, 2009 at 6:04 am by Ruibo
The announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 has caused a significant amount of players unrest at how early the sequel is going to be released. Steam members had quickly created a boycott group on Steam which now has now almost reached 20,000 members at the time of writing. Valve has been consistently claiming the sequel isn’t a quick cash scheme and that the game itself will be huge and much more than just another DLC.
In a recent interview, Valve’s Chet Faliszek said that the project was originally called “this big thing,” and that the content has much more to offer. He said: “It was just like, OK, this is big enough that this isn’t DLC, we’re not going to be able to leak it out. It’s a cohesive, single thing. It’s Left 4 Dead 2.”
Faliszek also promised Left 4 Dead fans that updates are still due for the original. “In fact Left 4 Dead one, we still aren’t done with it,” he said. “We still have updates coming. Our focus is always on what we’re putting in the box, put as much as we can in the box. Let’s not worry about: let’s save that and not put that in the game. No, let’s put that in. And with the five campaigns, all of them out of the box, playable Versus, co-op, Survival and the new mode, there’s just a ton of content in there.”
When asked if Left 4 Dead had now become an annually updated franchise, and whether 2010 would see the release of Left 4 Dead 3, Faliszek replied: “We do it once in a year and everyone’s like, oh my God! Let’s do this one. Let’s worry about this and then we’ll see.”
Perhaps a discounted expansion would’ve been the better way to go but we’ll stay tuned for further updates on the outcome of L4D2.
I don't think it's a terrible thing that this is a new game, what's terrible is the loss of the player base of L4D 1. If Valve can find a way to keep all of the old L4d content in L4d2 AND allow the L4D 2 players to play with the L4D 1 players whenever you join an "old map". I'll pay another $50 for it, it works for Rock Band and no one is pissed about it, why not L4D?
No one cares about the fact that Rock Band does it because the people who generally play anything besides PC games are very silly with how they spend money. More PC gamers care that they are spending 50 dollars here and 50 dollars there. When I buy a game I don't buy it for only a month but I expect to get much more out of it. I can compare the fun that I've received from the Orange Box (Which I bought in Australia for well over 60 dollars) and I still see myself playing what I got from it to L4D which bored and annoyed me after I started to actually play the game.
Sure L4D was great when it first came out but then all the Co Op issues just became so frustrating coupled with the fact that the only thing introduced has been a crappy survival mode.
are you referring to the 3000$ computer from alienware or the monthly 15$ spent on MMO's. Why don't you consider thinking before uttering nonsense. PC gamers spend more 10x the money just upgrading there PC than actually buying games.
What does the player base matter? This is a game that has shipped 2.5 million units. Online multiplayer can survive on as little as a thousand people. Look at Microsoft's Shadowrun, the player base for that is ridiculously small, and yet you can still find a match in less than a minute.
that would help, but the only way I'm going to drop any money on L4D2 is if they give a discount to current L4D1 owners that drops the price tag below 20 bucks, or I hold out long enough so that it's below 20 on steam. I feel I got ripped I bought a game that was suppose to have substantial updates all I got at start was a half finished game and then the next patch a bunch of retards rejoicing that what should have been released with the game was free and how great valve was for this. I dropped 50 I got ripped off and so for the awesome content they want 50 more fuck them.
they should market it as an expansion
its a shitty move to release more content as a sequel.
Left4Dead 1 was too expensive for the amount of content it delivered – many gamers paid this, thinking that more scenarios and weapons would be available via updates later. In fact, Valve said this, repeatedly. Instead, they've announced new scenarios and weapons…for the sequel. I'd like to see them respond to that specifically.
When you buy a peice of software, you are buying it as-is. Period.
You got what you paid for… an inflated sense of entitlement does you nothing but make you look childish.
So you have never patched or updated any software….What Operating System are you running? Do you use any Adobe software? Office? All software that is worth a shit gets updated.
Yes but those updates are nearly always purely to fix bugs. You think Adobe releses patches and updates that turn CS3 -> CS4? No they don't they roll out CS4 and patch any problems with that.
This crowd bought L4D thinking you were going to get a ton of free content out of Valve's pocket. They didn't now their crying. Simply as that.
Thats because when it was coming out it was specifically stated that more content would be delivered, such as new weapons, characters, and maps. This idea is in line with what Valve has done with their other games, which is provide long-term support with free additional content, so it was not hard to believe them when they said they would do it for L4D as well.
Now we've had two of the launch maps opened to VS play (something I always wondered why it didn't launch with) and one new mode added. The new characters, weapons, and maps that were promised are instead being released in a full-price sequel.
I'm not a member of the boycott group, I may pick up L4D2 but this time I think I will wait for it to go on sale first instead of buying from launch. $30 sounds much more reasonable for what we are probably going to get out of this game now that we know the traditional Valve support may not be there.
You're a tard for comparing a program to a game. TF2 isn't always bug fixes. They have amazing game upgrades and content releases.
you're totally right that totally justifies me paying 50 more bucks, man thanks for showing me how childish I am for expressing my distaste to the people I give my money to in their ability to continue to support their product. fucking sell outs.
Valve is just yanking our chain. They're saying they're going to charge for the next DLC and see how much press for the update they can gather. Then, at the last minute, they say, "Okay! We give in! It is an update!" and ride some more good press out of the whole thing. Valve is the master of working the Internet for good PR.
I was invited to the left 4 dead boycott group without any inquiry or provocation, they are spamming invites and people join it with zero idea what they are signing up for, just look at the "doorman is god" group. Valve can take my money anytime until they release a product that doesn't live up to their standards or isn't what it says it is. I'm not going to complain about something I haven't even experienced yet, that would just be stupid.
Kinda like meth. Why complain about it if you haven't experienced it yet.
No matter what Valve does, I cant hate them. This move is a little different from usual, but I never did pick up L4D, so I will be sure to get L4D2.
Looks like Super Epic Video Game News is supporting the boycott.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC-tVuhrrRU
I like their idea…
Send Value a message courtesy of the Halo minute, I can take this plenty seriously.
A boycott is a stupid move, Valve have, since announcement, added new content to Left 4 Dead in the form of a new campaign, given it's only 2 levels but they're bloody long levels and they're completely free to PC gamers (a small £5 on XBL because Microsoft love money) you have to remember if Valve were to release all the Left 4 Dead 2 content as an expansion it would be a more difficult dilemma as how to deliver this content to the console players that are a large share of there current market.
I am a gamer of both PC and console and have been since 1997 and things like this happen a lot, but people get pissed over stupid things, if you want to boycott someone boycott IW for the fact that Modern Warfare 2 on PC is going to be more cut down then a naked teenager from Friday the 13th or Blizzard for the fact that Starcraft 2 if it's finally released will be released in 3 wallet biting £30 chunks.
I wonder if these 20,000 people are going to return their copies of the Orange Box, which offered more bang for the buck than any single disc to come out for consoles. I also wonder how many of them will stick to this boycott once all their friends tell them how great L4D2 is.
I swear, gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners. Valve is a company that clearly cares about the quality of the product they sell and they've put out some truly iconic games. I bet these same boycotters would be the ones complaining if a L4D2 release date was announced and then pushed back. How about finding a real cause, fellas? Like eliminating poverty?
Are you comparing Orange box to L4D2? Seriously, you want to stick with that? I don't even know where to begin. Let's start with L4D has essentially no single player storyline….at all. It is strictly multiplayer. So it boils down to maps/campaigns and characters and weapons, then the AI. All these can and have been updated before through DLC. It just makes me laugh that you cite Orange Box which contains TF2, which started it all.
I cite Orange Box because it was made by Valve, not because I think they are comparable. Were you out in the street telling strangers to buy the Orange Box, which you seem to agree is a great value?
Look at it this way: Which option do you think makes Valve more money — DLC that they can distribute extremely cheaply over the internet, or an entirely new game, which must be pressed, packaged, distributed and shipped? (Hint: DLC is much more lucrative. Ask Bethesda.)
I’ve got loads of fun out of my Oblivion horse armour….
Okay, that’s a lie, I never even bought the damn thing, I can see where you’re going and I agree while everyone boycotting L4D2 is either a whiny bitch or in fear that it’s just another cash in all these people have to look at things like The Orange Box and Half Life 2 and Half Life itself for god sake and realise Valve have a certain bar if you will that they set for most of the gaming world because there games are so thought out, so detailed and often offer a lot more gameplay then your average EA studio knocked it out in 2 months job.
Valve games are a consistent high quality, always have been and hopefully always will be so you can see if you thought the Orange box was worth it you will probably feel Left 4 Dead 2 is worth it. Also honestly a boycott group of 2000 isn’t impressive, that just means that there’s a load of people that thought “that’s a bit annoying” but the general population is a bunch of people who got random spam invites and accepted, people eat up the same shit football (soccer I suppose if you’re American) games every year so why the fuck do you complain when there’s a genuine addition to the game such as advanced new AI. Besides COD6 has got well over 100,000, L4D2 Boycott is minuscule in comparison.
A new game is a good thing.
I have heard people say that 20,000 people won't even make a dent in Valve. That is even if they follow the boycott after the game is released, but then you must consider how many people paid full price and either were shocked or disappointed in the lack of content L4D had to offer. Then they announced the sequel. Not all those people have joined that boycott group, but i bet they won't pay for it anyway.
I bought L4D at half price and i have to say i found the amount of content to be worthy of that, but not $50. I know the TF2 came out the same way as L4D, but that was also packaged in with how many other games? If this game comes out for $50 i will again wait for a weekend deal, but even then i probably won't buy it because who knows we might get L4D3 next year and so on.
If you people that say this is great news and who cares about the price think about it. If L4D2 sells as much as L4D1 then we will see sequel after sequel with the same game play and a slightly expanded campaign year after year for $50…. Do you want L4D to become the Madden of Shooting games?
I am tired of seeing publishers (and some developers) just cash in on fans and all gamers with releasing literally the same thing every year. Now it is L4D and CoD and before that all sports games plus MMOs (I am sorry, but how did Warhammer evolve from WoW even though it came out what 3 or 4 years later?).
I love Valve because they always make good games, but this just seems like it could be the next Counter-Strike, CS:CZ, and CS:Source which is essentially (with some differences like a different engine, but the same guns, game play, skins, maps, and everything else) the same game.
I am sure i will get some thumb downs for that last comment, but i could care less. The fact that some person probably half away across the country or world disagrees with what i just said could not make me care anymore.
Don't you think it's a bit premature to be calling L4D the Madden of shooting games? It's the SECOND damn game. People need to seriously stop bitching and speak with your wallets when it comes out. Crying about this on the Internet will accomplish nothing. They aren't going to suddenly go "Okay, wow 20,000 people out of the 2.5 million purchasers are bitching at us about this sequel so let's give it to everyone for free". Valve makes good games so I'm sure this one will be good as well. Most of the jokers on here probably bought it when it was $25 anyway and they'll do it again when Left 4 Dead 2 comes out. So you'll be paying, what, $50.00 for 2 games? Hardly a rip-off.
Money speaks louder than some text on this or any other site people.
unfortunately in the end its all about the business.
even if L4D sold a million, 20k is nothing. and i'm sure that valve can take that hit.
besides, once L4D is abandoned they will have no choice.
in the end valve will have its say, and L4D2 will sell as well as L4D if not better, and those that boycott this will amount to nothing. thats business, nothing personal. just profits.
I think it's great that they're putting out a sequel so soon. I've logged a lot of time on L4D (when I should be working teehee) and I will happily welcome 5 full new campaigns that are ready for co-op, vs, survival and whatever this new mode is. I've certainly got my money's worth for L4D, and the videos I've seen of L4D2 have already got me drooling. If you figure you spent $50 on a game and played it for a year, that's a little over $4/month. If they released a game a year (like Madden…) that's still a great deal, sign me up.
As for this so-called boycott, does anybody else realize that just because a game is released doesn't mean you're forced to buy it? They already said they have more planned for the first L4D, so be thankful they're not completely abandoning it. They've also said they're figuring out a way to get the old content into the new game. But the point is, if you feel it's too "early" for them to release a game, why don't you just wait until the time is right, and then plunk down your half a day's pay to get it. There is no law that says you must buy a game the moment it's released. So please, instead of complaining, boycotting and ruining it for the rest of us, just buy it when you want to buy it, after you've got your fill of the first L4D.
Remember, there's still almost 6 months to go before the sequel arrives… surely that's enough time to tide you over.
I don't get why people are getting so dramatic over this, Do you guys remember 10 years ago when there was no such thing as DLC? if you don't want to pay for it, don't get it but stop b***hing about it, my god if you don't want to shell out 40-60$ for a game you aren't much of a gamer. Are you guys new to this?
It's not about the money.
L4D is strictly multiplayer game — we were promised on-going updates to it. Imagine if Blizzard launched WoW then decided to launch WoW II the next year, with hardly any updates to the original. People would be pissed. So what does Blizzard do??? They create expansions, updates, DLC.
I don't really care what it costs, but I don't want to own two versions of the same game – I want an update to my existing game.
…and how much money do you spend on L4D each month? That's the difference between L4D and WoW
None, obviously.
Which is good because I haven't been playing L4D — I've been playing TF2 with all of its updated goodness.
The fact that I don't pay monthly for L4D doesn't invalidate my point. Furthermore, your argument doesn't support Valve's actions, because if you READ the article, you'll notice that Valve claims they aren't doing it for the money.
I accept your apology.
I'm sorry… that I don't understand how an expansion is all that different from a sequel, especially a sequel that's claiming to include everything from the first game.
Blizzard charges for all of their expansions, and they're certainly not free. They're around the $40 or $50 mark when they first come out (while you're still paying their monthly fee). So you get all of the goodness from the original, plus all of the wonderful new stuff… how is this different? Just the fact that they didn't say the word 'expansion'?
Now if YOU actually read the article, you would know they're still planning on releasing new content for L4D. Your original statement insinuates they're done with the first L4D, which apparently is not the case.
There was another article where Chet explained that adding on to the current L4D is not an easy task. He mentioned how the new common infected are different somehow, and to roll that change out to the existing L4D is a massive undertaking. I think it makes perfect sense to release a whole new game that's much larger than the original but is backwards compatible with the original content.
But if it'll make you feel better, I'm sure valve wouldn't mind slapping a sticker that reads "expansion pack" on top of the "2" to appease the boycotters and complainers such as yourself.
This is the first time I've ever seen people complain that a company's hard work is coming out too early… I really am in disbelief.
I want you to know I was being tongue-in-cheek with the 'I accept your apology', I'm not really interested in a flame war.
Blizzard is updating it's existing games. If I played WoW, I wouldn't want to launch one game to play the original quests, then exit and relaunch a different game with slightly different features to play with different people on a different server. Then if we decided we wanted to do something in the original game we'd all have to quit, and relaunch again. That would be stupid.
I'm not one of the boycotters. If my friends are playing L4D2 when it's released, I'll purchase it and play it. I'll complain to the extent that I wish Valve could do this differently, but I'm not pissed about it.
My original post here was to let 'sigh' know that the complaining is not all about the money; he was belittling an argument he didn't understand.
I did see that they're planning on releasing new content for L4D, but that still isn't quite a remedy to the issue. If I want to play map/mode X, Y, or Z, I have to fire up L4D, if I want to play map/mode A, B, or C, I have to quit L4D and fire up L4D2. It doesn't make sense — it's the same game, the same engine. It's a headache to be bouncing back and forth between two games for the same, identical experience.
And L4D2 won't contain all of the same content as L4D. Period. If that were the case, then Chet lies about not being able to roll out and integrate the two games together.
I did read the other article you mentioned, and I understand their dilemma, but it's not a very convincing argument. I'm a game developer myself, so I'm empathetic to the challenges that appear during development. But everything in L4D is so silo'd anyway: all of the maps are completely unrelated. So why not role out your new maps and your new modes as game options for L4D?
How long do you think Valve will continue to update BOTH L4D and L4D2 simultaneously? Especially considering it looks like Valve is going to release L4D2 before they've released a SINGLE new map for the original L4D. It doesn't make sense; for Valve or the end-user.
It's just a big headache.
I guess one thing's for sure. I don't care if it's a sequel, expansion, DLC, or whatever… it's entertaining. I think it's well worth the investment, and I'll be happy to spend my hard earned $50 to get it. I consider myself a relatively casual gamer, it usually takes a really good game for me to get want to continue playing it. However, as of today I'm at 185 hours spent on L4D, and I bought it for only $40, so my current rate of entertainment is $0.22/hour (I rounded up).
Cheap entertainment, plain and simple. You say it's not about the money, but for most people it IS about the money. They're mad they paid $50 for an "incomplete" game (regardless of how many hours they've spent playing it) and now they HAVE to spend another $50 to get the "rest" of their game. I just don't see it that way.
I've read 2 articles where Chet said they want to get the original content playable in L4D2. I'm certainly no game developer (although I am a programmer), but I think it would be much less daunting to put the models and maps into the newer "format" than to adapt the old "format" to accept the new content. There's probably a lot I'm missing to the story to how things work, but that's what makes sense to me.
Anyways, I do apologize for any "flaming", never my intent, just a discussion.
I was making this same basic argument yesterday on a forum. The software companies don't "owe" us anything. We bought the game, that is far as their support really needs to go, yet companies like Valve release updates almost weekly for their games (especially concerning games like L4D, and TF2.) Remember back in the day? PS1, or when you were gaming on you're old Win 95(8) box. Remember when you ran into a weird glitch, or bug? The game would get stupid, or worse, your entire system crashes? What was the most you could do? Look for new drivers, maybe a fix someone had found online that MIGHT, fix it if you were lucky. Now we have a company like Valve offering all sorts of DLC's and updates to their games, and you people can't do anything but complain about spending an extra 50 or so bucks, after you've received Hundreds, or even thousands of dollars worth of work, code, and fixes for free? The people boycotting just sound like a bunch of Whiny, children that feel like they are owed something by a company that has given them far more then any end-user is going to know.
"Do you guys remember 10 years ago when there was no such thing as DLC?"
Yeah, back then they had these things called expansion packs instead. Same thing, only it came in a box and typically offered more content to justify the price. Remember those?
The reason that people are pissed about this is that L4D2 is the promised – and I do stress promised – DLC for L4D. No new engine or anything. They just went a bit overboard with the content and decided to brand it as another full price title instead. This not only breaks Valve's promise to release DLC for Left 4 Dead but also makes the title somewhat ironic seeing how that's what has become of the game.
they never promised anything. they said MAYBE. There's a difference. And if you don't want left 4 dead 2 then don't freaking buy it!
Around 60-70% of the people "boycotting" are just going to end up buying the game anyways, I just don't get all the drama.
Probably. I just with they would stop babbling about it being bad and just not buy it. I'm excited about it. I'm going to play both of them. Can't wait.
I payed for L4D about a week after it came out. Good game always had fun on it, wished there was more to it. L4D2 was announced, I am thinking awesome more zombie killing.
The fact that there is 2 games instead of DLC does not bug me. If it was DLC the size would probably be about 4 gigs and would kill everyone's tiny 20 gig Hard drives (20 is the stock size of the original 360) I know most of the gamers will have the 120 but the fact remains.
They added in at min. 4 gigs of stuff. From the maps, to the weps, new people, new zombies, a whole new computer ai. The size of the game is what stops this from being DLC and makes it, it's own game.
I would say if they did not make the AI better this could be DLC for the guys with big Hard drives. But for the average run of the mill frat boy, wants to kill some zombies tonight, type of person, This is over the top.
Also for all the work there is no way they would be free. At min I would say $50 for the game if this went DLC, I would guess about $20 – $30 worth of Microsoft points.
Now I am not looking at this from the ideals of the players on steam who are the ones that are going insane over this.
But it comes down to the same thing, This is a new game this is not just more stuff added. The whole Ai engine have been redone and tweeked.
You cant not just put it as DLC because the zombies would not work right. There would be to many little issues.
If you think I am wrong go program something, then program the same thing but make it better, make it work faster and make all these items that are based off this new speed/power, then try and make these items run on the old program. If they work at all they will be buggy as hell.
Welcome to the real world, hope you enjoy your stay.
I totally agree with you.
Any really good game developer is worth the money. Blizzard, and now valve are high on my list. There not 'companies' so much as a rare collection of talent, turning out games that border on art. Can I find a way to avoid paying? yes. Are these games worth every penny I end up paying? Yup. Gonna go play Team fortress 2 on linux now, thx valve.
I hear that man, We aren't just talking about an assortment of code that functions "well enough." From what I can tell all the people that are complaining about this are people that don't understand Valve, they don't understand the industry, and they certainly don't understand inherent limitations of *all* code. the first L4D was more like a large scale test, I don't think Valve had any idea that it was going ot be this successful… Now that it has they want to add all this new content that the original game just doesn't support, and it probably could, but I don't want to wait 2 or more years to get it all. You're also right about this sort of stuff being an art form… There is a lot more going into it then just a few nerds plugging away at their keyboards for hours, that's for sure.
The first one wasn't worth $50 at launch, this one might be – but it's not been long enough between snatching for my wallet to get caught with my pants down again. 90% of the people in the Boycott group may end up getting the game – but call me the last 10%. They're not getting my money again for the same lump of crap in a different wrapper.
So what you're saying is that Valve should've charged less for the original, and then charged for the DLC to bring it up to the regular price?
Or maybe you're just upset that you didn't wait and wished you'd bought it when it was $10 that one weekend.
Or maybe you'll end up buying it anyways because there's no way to track the actions of nameless, faceless commenters so nobody can say anything when you're waiting in line on launch day.
The thing is, bad publicity is great publicity, and regardless of what side you're on, you're feeding it.
"Lump of crap?" Wow. I can understand the opinion that L4D is not worth $50, but calling it crappy is pretty harsh. So you're saying you didn't enjoy the game at all? Or are you just bitter because you feel you didn't get your money's worth?
The fact that they're releasing a second game this soon after the releases is bullshit, what's happened is people have gone "hey valve, can you make some new maps for L4D?" and valve have answered with "sure, but we will be charging you $50 (i assume) for it, adn to vaildate this move were replacing the old characters you've come to love with a bunch of new, overdone, overly cliched, overly crap ones and stuck a few new useless melee weapons (cmon, a fyring pan? in the review on rockpapershotgun.com they were saying how you could "even hit hunters of pinned survivors with it", yeah i can do that with my shotgun and it shoots bullets, and incendiary rounds? now the tank, oh i'm sorry the "charger" is really useless) and called it a new game. this is valve's first blatant act of bastardry and i hope its their last so we don't get some sort of FIFA-esque game that gets regurgitated every year as an excuse not to release dlc maps, i agree with Garmer on this matter i aint buying this unless it go's down to $10 for a weekend or something, now im gunna go savour the original before it gets shit.
Yeah mate i agree.
PS: Fuck American retards.
Fuck eurotrash
This is a little unorthodox for Valve, usually they let their games sink into the community for well over a year before trying to do anything else with it, other than updates. However, that being said I support them in releasing this game.
They say it up top, and they've said it in plenty of other interviews I've read about this topic. The people at Valve really like working on this game, and they keep coming up with excellent ideas that either cannot be put into the game due to currently limitations of the engine, or the AI director. Or simply, there is so much new content that they have come up with that it almost requires a new game. If you're going to be mad a company for having an over-abundance of ideas, as well as being successful as all hell, then you're mad for a stupid reason. If you're mad that you have to spend another 50 or 60 bucks (Depending on what you play it on.) Then maybe you should re-think your hobbies, It isn't that much money for the amount of entertainment you get out of the game. Hell I've easily played the first left 4 Dead over 200 hours, and I will do the same to the new game. All the people that are "boycotting" the game are idiots, all 20,000 or so of them, and it will just make it that much easier for me to get a copy on release day.
Boy, I love killing zombies.
Why does this sort of thing always devolve into people attacking each others point of view. Have the strength and basic dignity to allow other opinions to exist. Some people are ok with paying $50 for the new game, and some people are ticked off about some miscommunication by Valve and perceive L4D2 to be a money grab. Even if you want to buy the game you can see the point of view of those who are pissed off. And if you're ticked off you can understand why some people shrug and say I want to buy it.
There is never going to be a borg mind on the subject and you cant force people and verbally assault them into submission so stop it!
Here is my suggestion, please read and listen Valve.
Valve is highly regarded as a provider of long supported products. The consumers feel the release of a new l4d product is too soon, as for many, the current l4d product feels to small/short to justify a new standalone product.
In order to appease all I would recommend this path of releas. For current l4d, lower the price to $20 around l4d2 release. Offer l4d2 at $30 to current l4d owners. Offer l4d2 to first time buyers for $45, which includes l4d2 & l4d.